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New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
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Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Mon May 13, 2013 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Here is the latest Luthier Tips du Jour video -The topic is intonation.
This video as well as all my other videos are available via my website http://www.obrienguitars.com/videos/, LMI's website or on Youtube.
Enjoy!
Author:  Beth Mayer [ Mon May 13, 2013 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Thanks for another great tutorial, Robbie! I used your method on the guitar I just completed and it turned out great!
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Mon May 13, 2013 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
You are welcome Beth. Glad to hear it worked for you.
Author:  ernie [ Mon May 13, 2013 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
vy important , just intonating my tenor uke. Thanks robbie.
Author:  LarryH [ Mon May 13, 2013 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Great tip Robbie. I've always been close but I'll work on getting it better with your help.

Actually just checked one guitar and it was so perfect I'm worried. The saddle is compensated but has just been left squared off, always meant to round it off and adjust for intonation but now I'll do nothing I suppose. Strange - I've NEVER seen perfect intonation on any of my guitars, factory or hand built (I know it' relative) nor have I ever seen a saddle that doesn't have any additional compensation. Magic? Lucky?

A quick question. Is it possible for the harmonic to be anything other than what the string's pitch is? If the string' pitch is an 'A' doesn't the harmonic also have to be an 'A'? And if the string's pitch is a bit flat won't the harmonic be flat (no pun intended) as well?
Author:  Mike_P [ Mon May 13, 2013 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
LarryH wrote:
Great tip Robbie. I've always been close but I'll work on getting it better with your help.

Actually just checked one guitar and it was so perfect I'm worried. The saddle is compensated but has just been left squared off, always meant to round it off and adjust for intonation but now I'll do nothing I suppose. Strange - I've NEVER seen perfect intonation on any of my guitars, factory or hand built (I know it' relative) nor have I ever seen a saddle that doesn't have any additional compensation. Magic? Lucky?

A quick question. Is it possible for the harmonic to be anything other than what the string's pitch is? If the string' pitch is an 'A' doesn't the harmonic also have to be an 'A'? And if the string's pitch is a bit flat won't the harmonic be flat (no pun intended) as well?


I think you are missing the fact that a fretted note on the 12th fret and the 12th fret harmonic are being discussed...the answer to your question (which seems to be referring to an open note and the 12th fret harmonic) is yes...the 12th fret harmonic is exactly one octave above the open note...during intonation one checks, among other possible things, the relationship between the same frequency note that should be established by a 12th fret harmonic and fretting on the 12th...they should be equal the way Robbie is detailing the intonation process...you can also use purely fretted notes like comparing a 2nd fret note to a 14th fret note (should, in 'theory', be exactly one octave apart)...you can compare 7th fret notes to 7th fret harmonics...you can do all of it and find a middle ground that seems to work for what and how you play
Author:  LarryH [ Tue May 14, 2013 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Thanks Mike, I knew there was more to it but I think your last statement makes the most sense. My ear isn't sensitive enough to tell a couple cents off at any fret so it does indeed work for me.

Curious - have you ever had a saddle that didn't need any compensation?
Author:  Colin North [ Tue May 14, 2013 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Mike_P wrote:
LarryH wrote:
A quick question. Is it possible for the harmonic to be anything other than what the string's pitch is? If the string' pitch is an 'A' doesn't the harmonic also have to be an 'A'? And if the string's pitch is a bit flat won't the harmonic be flat (no pun intended) as well?


I think you are missing the fact that a fretted note on the 12th fret and the 12th fret harmonic are being discussed...the answer to your question (which seems to be referring to an open note and the 12th fret harmonic) is yes...the 12th fret harmonic is exactly one octave above the open note...during intonation one checks, among other possible things, the relationship between the same frequency note that should be established by a 12th fret harmonic and fretting on the 12th...they should be equal the way Robbie is detailing the intonation process...you can also use purely fretted notes like comparing a 2nd fret note to a 14th fret note (should, in 'theory', be exactly one octave apart)...you can compare 7th fret notes to 7th fret harmonics...you can do all of it and find a middle ground that seems to work for what and how you play

I would just comment I believe it is possible for the 12th fret harmonic to be off pitch if the string is faulty, e.g. if it varies in thickness along its length. Comparatively rare in quality strings, but it does happen.
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Tue May 14, 2013 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Thanks for a great video. Have you ever considered showing nut compensation? It seems to be gaining some popularity lately.
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Tue May 14, 2013 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Thank you Chris,

I haven't considered nut compensation at this time. Maybe some time in the future.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Tue May 14, 2013 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Great video as always Robbie, but I think that doing intonation with that level of accuracy will be problematic to some players. This method works fine for a quick fix but strobe tuners will get things much closer for the players with better pitch recognition.

Fred
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Tue May 14, 2013 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Fred Tellier wrote:
Great video as always Robbie, but I think that doing intonation with that level of accuracy will be problematic to some players. This method works fine for a quick fix but strobe tuners will get things much closer for the players with better pitch recognition.

Fred



You are correct Fred. This was meant to be just a quick answer to a problem.
Author:  Mike_P [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation
Colin North wrote:
I would just comment I believe it is possible for the 12th fret harmonic to be off pitch if the string is faulty, e.g. if it varies in thickness along its length. Comparatively rare in quality strings, but it does happen.


I knew I should have put an "in theory" there also oops_sign

you are correct...overtones (on an unfreted string) can also create issues, though that can me mitigated by letting the vibrations calm down a bit before you accept the reading the tuner is giving...

as far as a saddle not needing compensation...nope, haven't come across one as of yet though I've heard of them and because compensation can be such a 'personal' issue one person's perfection is another's nightmare..it's actually a fairly complex subject because of so many potential variables...
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